Description
A man was convicted by his own heartbeat — and that's just the beginning of our digital dystopia. About the Guest Andrew Guthrie Ferguson is Professor of Law at George Washington University Law School and a national expert on surveillance technologies, policing, and criminal justice. He is an elected member of the American Law Institute and the author of the PROSE Award–winning The Rise of Big Data Policing . His new book, Your Data Will Be Used Against You: Policing in the Age of Self-Surveillance (NYU Press, March 2026), examines how smart devices and digital surveillance are transforming criminal prosecution — and what the law must do to catch up. About This Episode Following yesterday’s conversation with Christopher Mathias about doxxing and the ethics of unmasking, Andrew Keen turns to the legal side of the same question: what happens when the data we generate about ourselves becomes evidence? Andrew Guthrie Ferguson joins the show from Washington, D.C. to discuss his new book — a deeply researched investigation into how pacemakers, smartphones, smart cars, and doorbell cameras are being used to convict people in court, and why the law has almost nothing to say about it. The conversation moves from a man convicted by his own heartbeat to AI-powered real-time crime centres, from Eric Schmidt’s infamous privacy defence to masked ICE agents in Minneapolis, and from Bentham’s panopticon to Ferguson’s proposed “tyrant test” — a framework for designing data protections by imagining the worst leader with access to your most intimate information. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction: Digital privacy and unmasking The theme of digital privacy and what it means to be unmasked in a data-driven world 01:25 Meet Andrew Guthrie Ferguson Introducing the guest and his new book on privacy, surveillance, and the law 02:10 The Dual-Edged Sword of Digital Devices How our everyday devices expose everyone and the complicated trade-offs that creates 03:40 From “Don’t Be Ashamed” to Privacy Nuance The shift from early Silicon Valley privacy optimism to a more complex reality 04:45 Regulating Government, Not Google Ferguson’s focus on keeping personal data out of court rather than off corporate servers 05:55 The Pacemaker Data Court Case How personal medical device data was used as evidence in a criminal trial 07:30 Convicted by His Own Heartbeat An arson and insurance fraud case where heart-rate data contradicted the suspect’s story 09:40 Google’s Three-Part Warrant System How tech companies helped shape rules for law enforcement access to location data 11:15 The Fourth Amendment Digital Gap What reasonable expectations of privacy mean in the modern digital environment 12:45 Digital Privileges and Intimate Data Whether certain types of personal data should be legally protected like confidential relationships 14:20 Surveillance Battles on the Ground Protests, law enforcement, and the evolving intelligence dynamic in Minneapolis 16:05 “Just Doing Our Job” and State Surveillance The common defence of surveillance practices and why it remains controversial 18:10 The Texas Drone Fleet Drones as first responders and the expansion of aerial policing technology 20:45 Real-Time Crime Centers and Mass Cameras Integrated camera networks, data fusion, and the lack of clear oversight 22:50 The Tyrant Test for Privacy Laws Designing privacy protections assuming the worst possible leader has access to the data 25:15 AI Supercharges Surveillance How artificial intelligence turns ordinary cameras into powerful tracking tools 27:30 AI-Assisted Police Reports Using body-camera audio and AI tools to generate reports and the implications for justice 29:10 No Turning Back From Technology Why abandoning digital tools isn’t realistic and why new laws may be needed instead 31:15 Closing: Every Smart Device Is Surveillance The idea that modern connected devices inherently function as surveillance tools Links & References Mentioned in this episode: Your Data Will Be Used Against You — NYU Press Andrew Guthrie Ferguson — GW Law School faculty page Perplexity for Public Safety — free AI tool for law enforcement Previous episode: Christopher Mathias on To Catch a Fascist (Episode 2793) Carpenter v. United States (2018) — Supreme Court ruling on cell-site location data and the Fourth Amendment About Keen On America Keen On America is a daily podcast hosted by Andrew Keen, the Anglo-American writer and Silicon Valley insider named by GQ magazine as one of the world’s “100 Most Connected Men.” Every day, Andrew brings his sharp Transatlantic wit to the forces reshaping the United States — interviewing leading thinkers and writers about American history, politics, technology, culture, and business. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show’s founding on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting. Website | Substack | YouTube